rob the bartender

[trochee]

I went out on Saturday night with thevorak and imtboo at St. Clouds (yes, beckyb's stomping grounds) to hear thevorak's (ex?)-boy friend C. play drums for a very good Cowboy-Junkies-ish four-piece band (bass, guitar, drums, vocals). It was a relaxed evening for me and imtboo, but thevorak was kind of panicky around talking with C., because she's not sure how they should relate.

That's really why we were there: we were backup for thevorak. But things seemed to be okay, and we sat around and socialized with some of C.'s friends who were also there, and with other people who were there. imtboo knows somebody everywhere; I'm very impressed. One guy got up to play a couple of duets with the lead singer, and her reaction was "hey -- it's R! I was in a rock musical with him last year." She knows everybody.

The bartender --although very slow in actually getting drinks/food -- was sociable and started off trying to impress us all with his various knowledge. thevorak and a friend had been folding fancy shapes out of their napkins, and he came over and started talking origami shite and took every opportunity to talk about all the crazy ninja training he had. Actually it was one step up from saying "I am trained in ways to flip out and kill people" because he claimed that ninjitsu was all American nonsense (probably true) and that he was training in the real thing (possibly true, but what a weird thing to say -- it reminds me of this).

We were all heavily irritated. And then he started talking about languages. Most readers of this journal are aware that (unlike ninjitsu) I know something about languages. (imtboo and I had been speculating about his accent.) Turns out he's Welsh (he was very excited to learn that imtboo was from Breton Brittany/Bretagne) but he wouldn't believe that Gaelic and Welsh and Bretagne Brezhoneg were all Celtic languages. He got really aggressive about how Gaelic was really different ("it just has a different cadence, and I couldn't understand it"), which was making me progressively more and more shut down and backed off, but I kept saying "I dunno, but I think I know something about language, and I'm pretty sure that they're in the same family."

After declaring that his next languages would be Arabic and Japanese, and dropping "casually" that he knew Swahili and Hausa, he finally settled down (I don't know why -- imtboo said it was because I kept not taking the bait) and decided that we could have a real conversation. (Did I mention that during this entire conversation, he was ignoring his customers by sitting at our table and calling imtboo and thevorak "luv"?) Then, he decided he wanted to talk about the linguistics in Snow Crash (which I may have mentioned are crap) and how they had to be right.

What's really amazing to me is that I finally left the bar thinking "that guy's frustrating -- but I could imagine being a regular where I show up once or twice a week to have a drink and a sociable argument." I actually introduced myself; turns out his name is Rob.

Today, that reminds me of the relationship between Vary and the professor in Mystery Date (ah, I'm always flacking for Carla Speed McNeil, aren't I): the professor isn't seeking any of the things from Vary that she's used to offering, especially to men: sex, dance, art, music. Instead, he really wants someone to argue with. She finds an unusual way to provide that.

It's making me think about my own relationships -- what do I seek in people around me? am I looking for people to argue with? Is that a good thing? I think (for both) the answer is yes.

And among those I can safely argue with, and still be confident of trust and honesty, I am happy to include imtboo. Thanks for being there, D~.

Comments

[boobirdsfly.livejournal.com]

No, thank *you*.
It's funny I have also been thinking about Rob. The irritating guy that just sticks in your brain... because.... he is so... damn... irritating.... and interesting in his own right.
I don't feel that we argue when we talk. We discuss. That's a major difference between Americans and French. We feel that we are having a conversation and you feel that we are arguing. I think you like to have a conversation in a french sort of way. Or European i should say, because the southern europeans and eastern europeans are even more animated and passionate than us.

[trochee.livejournal.com]

heh --

but I think that's just it. I like having conversations that way; yet most people here find that style to be "argumentative" or "aggressive". And indeed Rob was argumentative in that way -- but it was a subtle change from being an irritating man to a European having a discussion. And if you hadn't been there to talk about it with me later I'm not sure I would have seen the difference.

[boobirdsfly.livejournal.com]

I think you would have coz you're smart like that.
And also it's still true that he has an incredibly huge ego and irritating performative streak.

[trochee.livejournal.com]

woo-hoo!

then there's two of us when I go back and have a beer with him!

[boobirdsfly.livejournal.com]

I am confused. Do you mean I'll be coming too or that you will be irritating too ?

[trochee.livejournal.com]

actually I meant that I'll be having an incredibly huge ego and irritating performative streak.

[boobirdsfly.livejournal.com]

No no ! That's not sexy !

[isolt.livejournal.com]

There's personal preference mixed in with cultural preference too. What to me is a heated but friendly debate on a subject my boyfriend and I both care about is to him an intolerable argument, and we're both American.

[boobirdsfly.livejournal.com]

yes, of course there is, i agree. I understand the complications that come with generalizing... But thanks for pointing that out.

[q-pheevr.livejournal.com]

1. I like the icon. Very appropriate.
2. I read the title of this post as an imperative.
3. Does this guy think "related" entails "mutually intelligible"? Yeah, of course Gaelic sounds different from Welsh... sorta like how English sounds different from German.

[trochee.livejournal.com]

1. I just found the icon and couldn't resist.
2. heh, I noticed that too and left it because it was more fun
3. yes, that's exactly what I tried to say to him. And he rejected the idea that English and German were related too. That's when I started shrugging.

[q-pheevr.livejournal.com]

3. Ah. Yes, I can see how that would get frustrating very quickly. I don't think I would have had the patience to draw up a nice big table of I-E cognates for him, either.

[boobirdsfly.livejournal.com]

That's the thing though... If < lj user="trochee"/> had started to pull all the technical stuff and linguo, it would have been worse. But no, he just explained to Rob what he knew with words that Rob could understand and his usual intelligent use of analogies and Rob saw that he wasn't challenging him, but simply sharing what he knows. ...

The icon... yes... I missed it the first time. It's GRRRREAT !

[trochee.livejournal.com]

you're sweet.

Speaking of Gaelic, it looks like the Scottish Parliament is moving that way.

[boobirdsfly.livejournal.com]

interesting... oh and by the way... The place is Bretagne and the language is Breton.

[trochee.livejournal.com]

yup, I already figured that out and corrected it. The place is Brittany/Bretagne/Breizh and the language is Breton/Breton/Brezhoneg.

Thanks to Wikipedia again.

[soliss.livejournal.com]

Does your icon say "this is a angry angry boy"?

Because if it does, I'm going to have to hunt you down and kill you...

[trochee.livejournal.com]

um, are you upset about the failure of the phonological realization of the indefinite article?

I found this tree on the web and hacked it into an icon. I should really create my own, I know.

[soliss.livejournal.com]

Yes. That is exactly what I'm upset about, although I'm sure I would have put it differently.

And if you do make your own, try and make it legible, too... Even though this one's total illegibility probably cuts down on the number of *points at her previous comment*.

[soliss.livejournal.com]

although I'm sure I would have put it differently
Because it's... well, I can't say it's morphological, really, but what I'm getting at is the fact that the change occurs in writing as well. Is there a word for that?

Just ignore me

[soliss.livejournal.com]

"Yes," he replies, "'Phonological'."

[boobirdsfly.livejournal.com]

Oh... and being a fairly social creature as well as having lived here for 10 plus years would do it : in the department of knowing everybody. I wish i could say that it's because i'm just *so cool* . But that would be egotistic and irritating , wouldn't it ? ;)

[congogirl.livejournal.com]

Hee hee! Great icon!

1. He probably just likes the sound of saying "Arabic and Japanese. Swahili and Hausa." Or maybe he just likes to play with different alphabets. Can he say anything other than "beer" in any of those languages?

2. WHO LEARNS HAUSA??

3. To propagate sweeping generalizations, I know a Welsh guy here who has the same need to impress, while simultaneously signaling that I/you/we don't count/aren't as important as he.

4. It's a discussion if there is space for other people to participate. It's an argument if it is confined to the two of you.

[trochee.livejournal.com]

an he say anything other than "beer" in any of those languages?
hmm... maybe not. I had the same suspicion myself.

WHO LEARNS HAUSA?
good question. I'm pretty surprised by that claim myself.

It's a discussion if there is space for other people to participate. It's an argument if it is confined to the two of you.
a useful distinction.